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Can Apple Kill Flash?

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02-Feb-10 03:19
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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As Apple announce the new iPad, opinion is divided over the device's lack of Flash support. In the new ELATED Extra ( http://www.elated.com/newsletter/ ), I ask: "Can Apple kill Flash?"

Let us know your thoughts on the merits or otherwise of leaving Adobe's ubiquitous plugin out in the cold!

[Edited by simon on 02-Feb-10 03:19]

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02-Feb-10 04:08
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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I reckon it's a combination of all the reasons rather than a single reason:

* The Flash player doesn't exactly have a good stability record

* It's a resource hog - not good for mobiles and battery life

* Apple wants to keep control of the app market on their devices for as long as possible (eventually HTML5 + JavaScript will make this very hard for them to do)

* Apple is banking on Flash becoming redundant in a couple of years, so why not help it along a bit (see floppy disks etc etc)

Personally I'm not much of a Flash fan and I happily surf the web all day without needing it (I use FlashBlock), so I really don't care if it's not on the iPhone or iPad. If there's anything that HTML + JavaScript can't do, there's usually an app that can do the job instead.

To me, Flash has always seemed like a proprietary stop-gap until native web technologies make it redundant (which admittedly they're taking their time over!), though it's true that the Flash format is much more open these days, which is a plus.

You wrote in the newsletter: "Also, there are things you can do in Flash that you won't be able to do in HTML/CSS/JavaScript for decades."

I find this very hard to believe. A decade is a millennium in web years!

Expect HTML5 + JavaScript to supersede Flash (and Silverlight, for that matter) within the next 5 years max.

Matt

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02-Feb-10 05:15
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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Hi Guys,

I like the topic raised and I believe you've both raised valid points. I personally think that Flash will always find a way to evolve and keep its relevance but I don't think Apple can kill Flash!

I know of some clients who are 'crazy' about Flash and don't consider a website complete if it doesn't have some elements of flash. In some cases we try to replace it with HTML & JavaScript and at times we're able to get away with it because the clients cannot even tell the difference!

My personal interest in flash has dwindle over the years, but I still tend to appreciate some great works in Flash.

Meanwhile, I just want to seize the opportunity to commend you guys for your ELATED Extra newsletter. You always manage to keep it fresh, informative and educative for your readers. Thanks a lot.

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02-Feb-10 06:21
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@Matt: I gather Flash is way worse on the Mac because it can't get the hooks to access the hardware acceleration it requires. John Nack from Adobe makes some good points about Flash's place in the world (especially its use as a stopgap technology) on his blog:

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/

Also, try doing this in HTML and see how far it gets you:

http://www.candyandcandy.com

You might be able to fake bits of it with JQuery et al, but it's going to be clunkier than the Flash version for a long long time!

@mauco: Thanks for the kind words about the newsletter, and I agree, Flash isn't going to die, but I think we'll see a lot more attention paid to alternative versions of content and sites than we have done up til now.

Simon

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02-Feb-10 11:18
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Hi, guys...
I have just crossed my eyes over the links Simon mentioned, so I am not fully aware of what they say, however I have a question to add here, that might even get things worst...

How about the new Chrome OS?

You might say, what the heck does that has to do with this?

I say that everything, because they claim a new set of rules also for the web, but here with all the web can offer us! Before I seen the iPad, I must say, that I was 100% sure that I wanted that for web browsing. Completely sure, I thought of their new OS as the supreme pc for browsing... I thought of it as the pc for my parents, that never touched a pc before, at least my mum, and my father, despite of what he did, he doesn't know how to operate one anyway, just used a company software when he worked, so, to speak with me in Portugal, with my brother in UK, to some family all over the country, machines with Chrome OS will definitely be my beach...
Now, back to iPad... One big problem, from what I have heard, not sure if right or not, is that one about... multitasking. I have multitasking in my WM6 pda for some years, what the heck, I even had multitasking in my old Nokia 6600...
Can I or can I not have multitasking in the iPad? It is very nice, but as long as I am writing I am getting tired of it despite all the good stuff it as built-in...
So, it can't do flash... Bad move from them, at Apple! They need to improve their OS in order to let people fully enjoy web. I noticed in the iPad presentation, by Steve Jobs, that he almost skipped one page in NY Times, or other newspaper, when it was showed the «lack of plug-in» symbol. They need to improve. That is a good web device for web 1.0, perhaps a bit for 2.0 because of YouTube, but life isn't just YouTube.

Well... Wait for your answers, guys!

Márcio Guerra


P.s.- Speaking of the internet 2.0, does anyone ever heard of Lockerz? It is a new network... I will speak about that to you if you want me to! See you!

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By Albert Einstein
02-Feb-10 11:26
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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Hi Márcio (must do something about how your name displays in the forums!),

No multitasking on the iPad. My guess is that this won't hold it back one bit. It's only us "old/power users" who care about it! We're just used to being able to mess around with things. There's a great post on this here:

http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/359246680/the-worlds-are-colliding

And speaking of Chrome OS, how's this for a mockup?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=debO2FroXA0

You would need quite a lot of desk space for it, but it's quite fun!

Simon

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02-Feb-10 12:43
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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@simon: Thanks for the link to the John Nack on Adobe blog. I really enjoyed the insight.

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02-Feb-10 16:34
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@simon: I don't see anything at http://www.candyandcandy.com that won't be doable with jQuery and the HTML video element. However, it would be a hassle to author the content. Adobe (or someone else) needs to make a decent timeline-based authoring tool that can export to HTML5 + JavaScript.

@Marcio: I'll fix that problem with your name soon, I promise! If it's like the iPhone then the iPad does multitask "behind the scenes", and the built-in apps can run simultaneously; however you'll only be able to have 1 3rd-party app running at a time. That said, most apps save their state when they quit, so you return to it exactly where you left off. So the line between "it multitasks" and "it doesn't multitask" is a bit blurry.

@simon: http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/359246680/the-worlds-are-colliding is interesting. The linked post about "New World computing" ( http://stevenf.tumblr.com/post/359224392/i-need-to-talk-to-you-about-computers-ive-been ) is fascinating. Great find. I'm starting to think the iPad will be the start of something big, though it may take a few years to really kick off.

Matt

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03-Feb-10 03:30
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@mauco. I really like John Nack. He's a bit "Adobefied", but seems like a reasonable guy.

@ Matt. Not sure of your distinction between the interface and content authoring. Could you clarify?

Simon

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03-Feb-10 12:21
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Mates, mates...
I read the full article on Steven Frank, the one you posted, I even sent this guy an email, about that... The article is amazing, it does makes me feel bad for a while, but is so well explained, I must agree with him.
I am a old world user, the line, indeed, is very thin, on multitasking, but... I don't know, the new world is full of wonders. Never tried properly an iPhone for a while, to see how I would adapt, so, can't speak properly about it... But I am wanting to do it...
Bottom line, I can't wait for the future, like I never did, like I say I am expecting Chrome, like these new tablets, everything, bring them on!!!

Cheers from Portugal

Márcio Guerra, or Marcio Guerra, until accents are fixed, eheheh!

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By Albert Einstein
03-Feb-10 16:28
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@Marcio: Yes, I'm an "old world" user too, but this "new world" does sound more fun. I'm a firm believer in using computers to actually "get stuff done" and would rather not have to mess around under the hood all the time (unless I'm doing so for fun, which is different).

@simon: Well at the moment the only way to create something like that site in HTML5 + JavaScript is to hand-code everything. It would be nice if Adobe could make an authoring app that let you lay everything out visually with a timeline, then just export the HTML5 and JavaScript from that. (In fact they could just make Flash have an "export as HTML/JavaScript" option. That would be nice!)

Matt

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03-Feb-10 18:35
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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@Matt I also "...would rather not like to mess around under the hood all the time," so I agree with you on that.

The more I've been reading about the iPad online the more I'm starting to appreciate why Apple produced something that gets the basic job done without other distractions. Quite a few people (my mom included) are itching to get their hands on it for its simplicity.

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04-Feb-10 01:17
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@mauco: Exactly. I think that's why it will actually sell rather well, once people get their heads around the fact that it's not a drop-in replacement for a netbook, but rather an internet/media "appliance".

This made me laugh: http://www.funnyordie.co.uk/videos/d2b714361c/hello

Matt

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04-Feb-10 04:04
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@mauco. I firmly predict that they're going to sell shedloads of iPads, and that only people who like to tinker with their registries/Terminal will ever moan again.

More importantly, I notice Neven Mrgan's blog uses a Raymond Carver story as a post title this morning. I love Carver as I love life itself, and this makes me love Neven all the more:

http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/369315118/will-you-please-be-quiet-please

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_You_Please_Be_Quiet,_Please%3F

Simon

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04-Feb-10 16:00
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Matt, is he shouting because of the distance between the speaker and the mic in the iPad? Well, I voted «die», despite now I am felling a bit sorry for that... Perhaps it is a bit funnier than I thought!

Meanwhile, yesterday, I emailed Steven, the article writer, to invite him to this conversation... Well.. Let's see! Steven you are invited, right Elated?

Cheers all from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

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By Albert Einstein
04-Feb-10 17:57
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@Marcio: It's a reference to an old UK TV show called "Trigger Happy TV", where the guy used to do the same sketch carrying around a giant mobile phone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27aVPqpnL7Y

The joke is that when the iPad was announced everyone said it was just a giant iPhone, and someone suggested that Dom Joly (the chap in the video) should do a version with a mocked-up iPad. So he did.

Probably not as funny now I've explained the whole thing

Back on topic - "The Withering Away of Flash": http://www.fullstopinteractive.com/blog/2010/02/the-withering-away-of-flash/

Matt

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07-Feb-10 16:04
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@Matt, your "HTML5/javascript tool" idea. Interesting, I like the idea.

Knowing the guys that made that site, they'll have almost nothing in the timeline - it's all done in Actionscript - they never use the visual timeline tools at all. Almost a point of honour!

Be interesting to see what Dreamweaver comes out with this time though as relates to HTML5/CSS3 stuff. We should see in April, when the CS5 suite will probably be out!

Simon

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08-Feb-10 05:48
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@Marcio It's worth trying an iPhone to see how you get on with it. When I saw stills and video of the device, I never thought that it could be so smooth and painless, but it really is. More than a Mac, it "just works". A total next-gen device.

That said, mine died at the weekend, but Apple are replacing it free!

Simon

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08-Feb-10 13:10
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Well, my «condolences», about your device! Ehehhehe!!!

Cheers from Portugal

Marcio Guerra, Márcio Guerra, whatever you prefer, until the accents are fixed! Eheheh

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By Albert Einstein
09-Feb-10 19:38
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@simon: In that case I'd say that they could easily do that site using HTML5 + JavaScript. However, even without a timeline, it'd be nice to have a way to lay out elements visually rather than working with pixel coordinates in code.

How did your iPhone die then? You've only had it a few months haven't you?

I tried out my iPhone in a few iPod music speaker docks on the weekend, and found it really hard to remove it from some of them. Just noticed that my phone now has a 1-inch hairline crack on the back, starting at the dock connector and working upwards. Watch out for those pesky docks!

Back ontopic again: It appears that SJ's kick up the backside has finally woken Adobe up: http://is.gd/810zj

Matt

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10-Feb-10 18:48
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Not too much time right now to answer a bigger answer, but I have a clue to this topic... And it seems that the answer is really... Yes, Apple can kill Flash!

See this link, tell me what you feel about it, if you want to, because with this, well, Adobe might have a huge setback!

Cheers from Portugal, guys!

Marcio Guerra

Here it is the link:
http://anthonycalzadilla.com/css3-ATAT/index.html

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By Albert Einstein
11-Feb-10 03:39
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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Hi Marcio,

Clever stuff. It got me thinking though. We're seeing a lot of this "we'll move to HTML5/CSS3" instead of Flash, but it's not going to be that easy.

IE doesn't support lots of the required definitions and markup, and won't for years, if ever. That means that we'd be swapping an environment which is "write once, use just about anywhere" for one where 80% of the target market won't get the full benefit.

Doesn't sound that good in that context does it?

Simon

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11-Feb-10 07:40
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Well... I am trying to add some good arguments to the conversation, but I am not a webdesigner, despite some, basic, knowledge about that. I understand that IE is not, like they say in that link, a webkit browser, however, and if we do accept that the future is heading that way, and considering all the new platforms that are breaking in the market, and not even that, for example, like I mentioned, Chrome OS, Chrome itself, the market rate that they are getting, the way can be, in fact, that in the future, I mean, either Apple wins and and bye,bye most of .swf files, back to «good old .gif» or, in any case, a script, for the sites, to understand which version of the browser we are getting, and to show us adds and most «unuseful» flash... I really don't know. I am saying this but not considering any useful flash, like Disney website, which doesn't run on iPad... Really, I don't know, however I am certain that we face, right now, big changes in the future for the computing business...
For me, despite everything, if they can't kill flash, they can certainly hurt it a lot...
Either they push it to make IE a webkit browser, to allow all that stuff we mentioned earlier, either Microsoft replies back with a huge bet on the market, something really tough, to get some share of the market back... Like I said... Some huge changes are about to happen, in my point of view, and we are going to witness them (I hope!).
Are they good? Are they bad... I really can't tell.

This is long and little said!
Cheers guys!

Lets see your points of view now.

Márcio Guerra

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Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
12-Feb-10 13:52
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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Hi Marcio,

I think that Microsoft will move to Webkit when hell freezes over, sadly. They like proprietary software and the rendering engine for IE is very integrated at an OS level I gather. That said, I would love to see it!

Simon

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13-Feb-10 03:02
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@Marcio: I assumed that AT-AT used JavaScript - very impressed that it's all done using pure CSS!

@simon: It's an interesting question. As Webkit and Gecko start to become the dominant rendering engines and do so much more than Trident, how much longer can MS hold onto Trident? They're either going to need to seriously upgrade it to include HTML5/CSS3 goodness or switch to Webkit, or they'll start losing a lot of market share. (Or if MS dig their heels in then I guess we'll see developers using HTML/CSS/JS for all other browsers and Flash/Silverlight fallbacks for IE?)

Matt

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13-Feb-10 21:48
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Hi again... Haven't had much time, a quick question... Well, to follow up Matt's question. Will developers start to work to a browser in one language or flash/silverlight to IE?
If that happens we can really say that Flash will take a big blow, but will not die, and perhaps, a more specific growth to evolve has the browser itself...
Really don't know! I am quite a noobie, let's call it that, in webdesign. I know a bit of Dreamweaver, for the layout, a tidy bit of CSS, well, forgot almost everything, I don't even consider webdesign in my portfolio, and just a bit more than CSS of HTML.
I am not that old user regarding code, or coding. I would like to learn, however, but if this changes that much... really don't know... In fact, I still prefer print design, and in one way it is best to not to loose my mind and to keep updated regarding gadgets... Perhaps... There let be money to spend in Pads, Peds, Pids, Pods, Puds... Whatever!

Cheers from Portugal guys!

Márcio Guerra

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Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
17-Feb-10 00:47
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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Actually I'd forgotten about this, which has the potential to make whatever Microsoft does with IE irrelevant:

http://www.google.com/chromeframe

Long live HTML5!

Matt

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17-Feb-10 13:19
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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I am always on Chrome... Said it wasn't available to Chrome, eheheh! Of course...
Do you use it in your designs,well, webdesigns, Matt?

Márcio Guerra

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There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
17-Feb-10 14:42
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@Marcio: I test designs in Chrome, yes. I'm also toying with making it my main browser - Firefox is too slow and keeps crashing, while Safari lacks some features such as the AwesomeBar, which I can't do without. The privacy issues surrounding Chrome put me off, although I believe you can turn all that stuff off these days?

Matt

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19-Feb-10 03:34
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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I'm just edging towards making Chrome my main browser.. it is very nice. What are the said privacy issues?

Safari feels like home though.

Firefox has jumped the shark IMO.

Simon

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19-Feb-10 11:16
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Sorry for continuing off topic, but since you mentioned privacy issues, can you please gives some extra info?

This off topic arises one question that can link to on topic again, can Google and Chrome put back flash from what Apple is killing it?

I pick again those samples at the beginning of the conversation where it is mentioned the new tablet from Google...

Cheers from Portugal

Márcio Guerra

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There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
20-Feb-10 15:13
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@simon: Firefox (mac) pauses every few seconds when I have lots of tabs open, which is incredibly annoying. The only way to fix it seems to be to create a new profile; then the problem creeps back a few weeks later.

Apart from that, I find Firefox much nicer to use than Safari. Innovations like the AwesomeBar, and letting you know when you've already bookmarked a page, really need to filter through to Safari. FF's UI also handles lots of tabs much better than Safari's. Firebug also lets you do much more than Safari's developer tools. I've been trying Safari for a week now and I find it much more restrictive than FF. It's not noticeably quicker either - but at least it doesn't freeze every few seconds!

@simon & @Marcio: There were a lot of privacy scares when Chrome came out, surrounding the "auto suggest" feature and sending "everything you type" to Google - eg http://coderrr.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/google-chrome-privacy-worse-than-you-think/ . However I think these fears are overblown, and you can always turn off the offending features in the prefs. Also it is open source after all - if there were anything really nasty in there people would have found it and/or forked the code.

Matt

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20-Feb-10 21:35
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Hi guys!
Amazingly I had that link already, and didn't remembered. Well, not easy to forget because of today's toooooo muuuuch info everywhere. Perhaps it came from one of your newsletters either. Despite all that, thank you for sharing.

One question, that might relate to this topic. I love RMVB files a lot. If you don't know them, they are Real Player files. For videos they are nice and smaller, with reasonable quality. There is even a lower quality file, the RM, from what I know, and I play them in my laptops. Both. Even the less older one, almost two years and a half old (already???) and my older one, from 2002, 8 years on the 28th of February! Hurray...

My question is, I use some players to read those files, I would like to read them on an iPad, iPod, iPhone, my PDA XDA Orbit, also a bit old, I know, but we seem to have this problem, we old world computer users, that is to install everything we need to do what we need our computers to do. From you guys, that have iPods and iPhones, if you can speak about it, what is the «market» nowadays, for unlocked?? (or whatever name they give it, like jailbreak, or so) iPods, iPhones, whatever? Can I, in a unlocked or not iPod, install stuff to allow me to see Flash, to see these kind of files? For my WM6 PDA, my Orbit, I can install software to see the files, but, old enough, this phone does not allows me to play them properly, crashes, slooooooow playing and freezing a lot, well, old phone, old processor. What do you think the market is for this new phones and pods? Can I invest some money, then, considering 3rd party software for them, both for flash or even those RMVB files? I know that by default iPods read MP4, but RMVB (some people call it MP5) are not default formats... I would like, despite a bit off topic, your opinion, if you don't mind!
Well, and cheers, again, from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

[Edited by matt on 20-Feb-10 22:12]

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By Albert Einstein
20-Feb-10 22:16
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
@Márcio: Offtopic:

The good news: I've fixed the forums to display accented and other special characters properly! (At least I think so.) Hurrah!

The bad news: I updated the server at exactly the same time you posted your reply above, which somehow resulted in your post containing no text!

The good news: I received your message by email, so I edited the above post and pasted your text back in!

Matt

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Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
21-Feb-10 03:35
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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Sorry for continuing off topic, but I just felt like sharing my experience on the browsers mentioned.

@Simon: Tried making chrome my main browser but was disappointed because it kept crashing. The main thing I like about chrome is that it's fast. I just jumped to Safari a couple of months ago after I was adviced to switch to it for security purpose and I must confess it felt quite nice. So I intend installing it on a new system and using it as my main browser, when I get the time.

@Matt: I used FF for a while and was impressed with the loads of cool add-ons it had. But as you mentioned, it keeps getting slow and keeps crashing. This turned me off.

But since all these browser support flash one way or another, I believe there's still hope for Flash...

mauco

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21-Feb-10 14:07
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi again...

So I must assume you can't tell anything about that I mentioned last comment... Fair enough, thank you anyway!
Thank you also for allowing me to share my name properly here! Ehehehe!

Regarding browsers, I use Chrome, mainly, and just a bit of FF to download some videos I might see and wanna «grab», therefore I use it and some of its extras.

Going to see some football now, or, soccer, for those outside Europe!

Cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
22-Feb-10 02:32
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
@mauco: It is a shame that FF has become more unstable - otherwise it would be the best browser out there in my opinion!

@Márcio: I was so excited about fixing the forums that I forgot to reply to your comment! I think RMVB, being a proprietary RealPlayer format, isn't that well supported, although it looks like there are tools to convert RMVB to iPhone's MP4 format: http://www.articlealley.com/article_816067_11.html

Hope you enjoyed the match

Matt

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Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
22-Feb-10 10:38
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@Márcio I suspect that Real won't be making an appearance on the "i" platform anytime soon, since it's effectively a Quicktime competitor.

Simon

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22-Feb-10 11:19
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
The match.. Bah, 5-1, for the home team. Couldn't loose both, so, the one who lost and that had the possibility to go back to the first place, leaving my team in second, lost, so, the one in the 3rd place, won, and set the difference to the 1st one, my team, best attack, best defense, best goal score, everything, will remain 1st with 1 point over the 2nd, the one that lost, and 6 to the 3rd, the one that won. My team is SL Benfica, the 2nd is SC Braga, and the 3rd, the one that won, is FC Porto. Ten games for us to be champions! Almost there! Just depend on ourselves.
Thank you for the solution regarding converting the formats. I am also fan, like you must already noticed, of new gadgets, and it is just a shame not to have money to buy them all.
This is one of the problems that we, old world users don't have. We wanna see flash ads, we wanna see MP5 or whatever in our machines, we install plug-ins... I doubt, because like I said, I never used one before, that iPhone/iPod allows us to do that, and, if that was true we wouldn't be having this conversation!
Meanwhile, thank you for fixing my name! Hurray! Eheheheh!

Cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
24-Feb-10 02:34
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
@Márcio: The football stuff sounds very complicated. Anyway, I hope your team make it to the top!

Yeah, the iPhone is pretty locked down when it comes down to formats etc, although I hear that if you jailbreak it then you can do a lot more.

Matt

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Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
24-Feb-10 19:43
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Just to keep a bit more or less in topic... Jail-braking it allows us to install any stuff? Will we be able to install flash plug-ins? Will then Apple won't kill flash?

Meanwhile, soccer, too easy. 11 guys each side, one ball, the team that scores more goals wins, ehehhe... My team right now is the 1st in the league... After some years trying it, but not over yet... Last week second and third team played between, and a victory from the 3rd place let my team alone in the first place. They score 3 points for victory. Second place team is one point behind, the 3rd team 6 points behind, 10 games, 30 points, until the end of the league, or championship, as we call it...
BENFICAAAA, oops!

Cheers guys!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
28-Feb-10 19:22
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
@Márcio: I don't believe you can install the Flash player on an iPhone at all, even if it's jailbroken.

I'm not usually that interested in soccer, although I am looking forward to watching the World Cup in June!

Matt

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3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
01-Mar-10 11:05
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
I have one question that does not relates with this, but I think you guys can help me, because I think I have seen something here, regarding SEO, and Newsletters (I receive yours...) and my question is, can you tell me some free software where I can create a newsletter? I run a soccer blog, it is going very well, but I don't own any domain for it, for example, it is yet on Blogger, http://Bimbosfera.blogspot.com, and it is only 2 months old. I created a specific email for it, I gathered all my portuguese contacts from all my emails, around 400, but I am willing to add those numbers if this is going well like it is, and I sent, through Gmail, one of my «newsletters», created like a regular mail, but with Bcc to the contacts, and I added some more, today, reaching 500 contacts. Gmail blocked my account for 24 hours, they said, and tomorrow I will be able to send again. Now, I would like to send to some more people, I don't know I you do it, but you have domain, server, the hole «chabang», and I don't. What should I do to send a regular mail, weekly, like I am doing to more than 500 people. I want to create the newsletter also... I really think that I seen something here on Elated, didn't I?
Sorry for this huge off topic. If you can help me, or even start a new post regarding this, I will be more than welcome to post there my questions and leave this to flash!

Thank you!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
01-Mar-10 17:08
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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From: Africa
Hi Márcio,

Sorry for perpetuating this off topic but I just felt like answering your question.

Why not sign up for services like MailChimp, Constant Contact, VerticalResponse etc? There are loads of them out there. If you do a search on Google am sure you'd find one that meets your needs and budget.

Hope that helps? I believe we need to put an end to this off topic now by posting new topics or continuing the flash topic. Sorry for being a culprit of the off topic.

- mauco

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01-Mar-10 17:27
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi again, and thank you Mauco! I was considering Mail Chimp's free service, which goes around of 500 contacts as well, but I really think that I had seen something here in Elated... Perhaps one of the guys can help me out...
Thank you anyway for the other names. I will give them a look. For example, two 500 contacts services allow me to send my newsletter to everybody!

Thank you, cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra (it is wonderful to see my name properly written!!! Eheheh!)

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
01-Mar-10 18:02
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
Hey Márcio,

This article should answer most of your questions I think:

http://www.elated.com/articles/choosing-an-email-newsletter-system/

Personally I've found Dada Mail to be pretty solid on the whole.

It's good that your name displays properly now. I did tweak some of the forums PHP code and it started working, but I'm not sure why. (That doesn't inspire much confidence, does it! LOL) Anyway, it works now - that's the main thing.

Cheers,
Matt

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Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
02-Mar-10 17:52
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
By the way Márcio, congratulations on reaching "Bronze Star" member status (25 posts).

Matt

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3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
03-Mar-10 19:24
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
No mentioning... I just reached it because of you guys. Thank you for the previous answer, I haven't read it yet, well, just a brief look, but I will take a nice read of it in the weekend, or so, to be ready for the next Monday, time for my newsletter.

Another question, keeping off post, but can be addressed in a new post if you'd like to... I am starting teaching my girlfriend the bits I know of HTML and CSS. It is an opportunity for me to brush up my knowledge and to start learning the stuff as well. I did a small course over HTML, XHTML, CSS and Dreamweaver plus the school classes...
My question is, any tips to start? Should I tell her to avoid using Flash (to keep it on post, eheheh!)? Any good FREE reading or similar stuff to start? I have some manuals, I have one from Macromedia, the previous Dreamweaver before the CS3 one... Perhaps even CS3 already... Any tips? Or just «follow the book completely and you'll be fine»?

Cheers from Portugal and thank you for all!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
03-Mar-10 23:11
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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From: Africa
Hi Márcio, tell her to just follow Elated completely and she'll be fine.

On a serious note, personally I've found out that reading books, manuals, etc, is great but technology is dynamic. She needs to check out online forums and blogs related to these topics and she'll learn faster different tips and tricks by seeing 'live' examples of how others are applying their skills... for me that beats reading a book anytime!

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04-Mar-10 10:21
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@ Márcio I reckon just jump in with a (non essential) project and try to build it. Personally I can't just follow a book - I need to have a project!

Use the books, plus all the online resources here and elsewhere and it'll all start to fall into place.

I'd be wary of learning Flash right now. Worth waiting to see how it all shakes down. I note new airline Virgin America have dropped it from their site:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/02/virgin_america_html_flash/

Simon

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04-Mar-10 10:48
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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@Simon, thanks for this update and link. What Virgin America has done certainly says a lot for the future of Flash with large organizations.

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04-Mar-10 12:42
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@Mauco Well, it may or may not I guess. If this was the main Virgin site I think I'd agree, but it might just be a one-off. We'll see!

Simon

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04-Mar-10 17:46
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi again, guys!
I read the answers, thank you, I guess we will start by a small project, to learn the interface, to learn the smalls «how-to's», and be reading here and other places, of course, eheheh!

I seen this site, http://www.virginamerica.com/va/home.do, I guess this is the one that the post mentions. I read a related post, about the Adobe CEO or something, for Flash, answering Apple... The fight is nice, so far, eheheh!

Cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
31-Mar-10 04:20
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
Hey guys,

A couple of updates in the "HTML vs Flash War"


1. Adobe is, apparently, "not worried about the future of Flash"

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/03/29/165220/Adobe-Not-Worried-About-the-Future-of-Flash

Bit of a rambling blog post, but I think the central points he's making are that:

- Adobe makes its money from producing great content authoring tools, regardless of the target technology. Makes sense, and I can't wait to see a version of Flash (or whatever it's called in the future) that can export to HTML5.

- The Web is on the way out. (Not sure I agree with this one!)


2. Google seems to love Flash all of a sudden

No, really. Despite Google pushing HTML5 video, it seems they have a soft spot for Flash too:

http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/30/chrome-os-flash/

Not only will the next Chrome browser have Flash built in, but Google are apparently going to embed Flash directly into the Chrome OS. This means we'll see a slew of netbooks and tablets coming out in the next year, all running Chrome and all Flash-capable. Is this Google getting their own back at Apple and the (Flash-less) iPad?

Let battle commence!

Matt

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Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
31-Mar-10 14:12
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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If it's all about authoring, I'd like to think that CS5 will at least have support for HTML5 video, together with a seamless workflow for HTML5 video with Flash fallback. This would be a component in Dreamweaver I guess.

If not then we won't see anything of the sort from them for another 18 months - 2 years, which is just too long. They never really update except for security fixes and by that time the world will have passed them by on this front.

We'll see on the 12th I guess, when CS5 is out. I won't be holding my breath.

Simon

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01-Apr-10 11:03
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi guys! Yup... Seen it two days ago... Already waiting also! Lets see if they killed flash or not! Eehehhe... Though it seems not!

Cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
29-Apr-10 11:42
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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Uh-oh. Steve Jobs ups the ante:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

Link smack on the Apple homepage too.

What can Adobe say to that I wonder?

Simon

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29-Apr-10 21:14
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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"What can Adobe say to that I wonder?"

This!

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/04/29/live-blogging-the-journals-interview-with-adobe-ceo/

--
Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
01-May-10 19:29
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi guys! Since the forum post is still live, I want to add this as well.
It came from the Dan Margulis' Yahoo! Newsgroup. Here it is:


http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/14/adobe-confirms-no-flash-in-windows-mobile-7/

I think that after pressing post the link is linking to the place, if not, please add it in your browser address bar.

Cheers from Portugal

Márcio Guerra

P.s.- Off-Topic: Do you guys just speak through the forums? One in Australia, the other one in England... Well, different time zones, a lot of money in phone calls... Is this true? Do you only speak here?

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
02-May-10 18:50
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
@Márcio: Interesting, I kinda assumed WP7 would run Flash. Presumably it runs Silverlight?

Here's a fun poll: "Apple or Adobe: Who’s Right in the Flash Debate?"

http://mashable.com/2010/05/01/apple-adobe-poll/

- Apple: HTML5 is the future of the web

- Adobe: Flash will still be an integral part of the web in the future

- Neither side is completely right

Which did you vote for?

--
Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
03-May-10 08:48
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi again! This reminds me of a question people mentioned during this debate. I am not sure already where did I read it, but, here it goes, «Adobe ruined Flash when they evolved it to what it is today, instead of what was Macromedia's idea of Flash when they merged them in».

Something like this. So, nowadays we have Flash with video, with all these resources, but the main reason why it appeared, to do vector shapes animated in the web, in a «light» way, is almost gone. Or at least way too evolved. I might assume that in some way also Apple doesn't want this, and lets be true, no one wants his/her gadget to crash. Although, we might want it to run animations, soft and light, like the one showed here about that robot from Star Wars walking.

So, perhaps Apple is defending its product, and, like one of the topics/reasons people use when discussing mac or pc crashes in general, Flash needs to work in all devices, so they need to upgrade to the lowest comum denomitor, like Jobs says in the statement, and Adobe needs to make it work in all computers, so, lowering the general quality, but, effectively working in all of them. Pc needs to «chew» every single program people writes to work in it, Macs just run the ones they want, more or less (I like macs but have pc) and then they crash a lot less due to that, no need to accept every single graphic card, this, that, the other stuff, whatever, so I guess that pc have it a lot tougher and people sometimes are a bit unfair to them. I understand that nowadays they work almost the same, and yet less virus on mac, for example, and I am already a lot off my point, so I guess that they have both a bit right, and that Apple also looks at it in a economist point a view, to «rule the world».

One of the issues Jobs mentions is the interface, for the iPad, and I seriously doubt that Flash can't work properly there, without mice, so that is one false question.

I voted both have reasons, the last one, neither has the full reason in this topic.

Cheers from Portugal

Márcio Guerra

P.s.- Completely off topic. Did you guys know Lockerz? It's an invitation only kind of social network.

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
03-May-10 16:44
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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It seems our prediction that Apple is going to sell truck loads of the iPad is certainly coming true based on the article I just read on Wired.com:

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/05/apple-ipad-reaches-one-million-sold-twice-as-fast-as-iphone/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Index+3+%28Top+Stories+2%29%29

Early last week I finally got my hands on an iPad (wi-fi version) only to learn by last week Friday, that a wi-fi + 3G version had been launched! Well I must say that it has a lot of potentials but it didn't give me the 'Wow' effect that I was hoping for. But I guess future versions would certainly be improvements.

--
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04-May-10 18:17
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi again, guys!
I belong to a Yahoo! Newsgroup, from Dan Margulis, I guess you know him, about Color Correction, I can give the details later, but they also started a conversation, a bit wild at some points even, about the iPad/Apple vs Flash/Adobe stuff, like we are doing it here now, and it was my first intervention there as well. I mentioned there some of the links that were mentioned here, I spoke about some other issues being targeted there, and I am now here to give you also some of the links that were mentioned there, in case you want to read them to improve this 4 guys conversation. Seems a lot more people there, ehehehhe!

Here goes the first one:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222553091495816.html

And the next one:
http://venturebeat.com/2010/04/30/apple-vs-adobe-flash-what-steve-jobs-really-means/

Now something completely different, or not, ehhehe:
http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits/2010/04/apples-wager.ars

And the last one, on Dan, if you don't know him, and his next coming trip to Italy to teach the Postcard Picture Workflow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyqFk2V-OLM

This were the ones I gave there:
http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/30/chrome-os-flash/
http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/01/chrome-os-tablet-video/
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/03/29/165220/Adobe-Not-Worried-About-the-Future-of-Flash


So, if you want to add something now, after reading this, feel free to do it. I will try to l look after that Color Group address to give you, in case you wanna jump in.

Cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

P.s.- Here it is the address: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/colortheory/

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
05-May-10 18:45
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
Interesting points @mauco and @Márcio. I've yet to try an iPad myself. When I do, I shall be sure to let you know whether I say "wow" or not!

You could argue that Steve Jobs's letter was a smokescreen ( http://venturebeat.com/2010/04/30/apple-vs-adobe-flash-what-steve-jobs-really-means/ ), but I think his letter still contains valid points about Flash.

Check this out - very funny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hqFTx8rLsg&feature=youtube_gdata

"Good thing I didn't get an iPad, because this one does Flash..." <browser crash>

Matt

PS: Márcio, loved that Dan "Hitchcock" Margulis vid

--
Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
09-May-10 20:19
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
Things aren't looking any better for Flash this week either. Oops!

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/05/09/adobe-android-flash-demo

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Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
12-May-10 19:52
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Just a quick link for you to see... We'll speak more later!

http://aext.net/2010/05/flash-we-have-grown-apart/

(needed to edit again, forgot the link itself!)


Cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

P.s.- Give me a word or two, in the Typekit post, regarding the screenshots. Cya!

[Edited by mguerra79 on 12-May-10 19:53]

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
15-May-10 22:22
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
And just by the way, a kick add to cheer you up due to this discussion:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/apple-responds-to-adobes-new-ads

Cheers from Portugal

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
17-May-10 14:19
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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@Márcio That's funny =)

Simon

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20-May-10 12:53
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi again! Don't know if you seen this, but this is the last update on the Flash issue, now regarding Jobs AND Gates...

http://www.sadanduseless.com/2010/05/steve-jobs-vs-bill-gates/

See you later guys!

Márcio Guerra

P.s.- I am starting to get some screenshots. I actually got some of them in IE6 in XP with SP1. No CSS, at all... Eehhehe!

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There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

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By Albert Einstein
21-May-10 03:28
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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: )

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03-Jun-10 17:28
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
Hi again, guys, and, since he're still «on» let me add some bit of power information regarding iPad. Between these two I'd rather the current version, I don't know about you, but... Between having Flash or not, to have to choose, I'd rather the flashless version, and... I said it all (so far, of course!).

Cheers from Portugal and the link to it!

http://scoopertino.com/apple-blinks-new-ipad-xl-to-offer-flash-capability/

Márcio Guerra

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There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
04-Jun-10 03:26
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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Hi Márcio,

I nearly fell for that article untill it got to the Honda generator part, that when I knew it couldn't be true! Thanks for sharing... it really made me laugh.

Personally, I'm not too pleased with this wi-fi only iPad. And to think that the 3G version which uses a rare type of SIM, only makes me more unhappy with Apple... seriouly, what where they thinking? By the way, can anyone here recommend any apps that I can use to make this thing work like a normal pc? I'm looking for apps that can take care of the basic business stuff e.g. word processing, spreadsheet etc.

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04-Jun-10 03:58
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simon simon's avatar Rank: gold
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Hi Mauco.

Interesting. What do you find annoying about the iPad? I tinkered with my boss's iPad the other day and it seemed very nice. I suspect trying to get it to be more like a "normal PC" though is maybe the wrong way to think about it, and might lead to disappointment.

As for spreadsheets and the like, I'd suggest maybe Pages, Numbers and Keynote which are all available for the iPad.

Simon

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04-Jun-10 04:16
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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Hi Simon,

My frustration is just that I need to have wi-fi to use it, which I don't have! And I don't want to go through the additional expenses of getting a router blah blah blah, just so as to get wi-fi for my iPad.

If the iPad uses a regular GSM SIM (like the iPhone), oh that would have been ideal for me... As it is, I will have to give it to someone who uses wi-fi to download those apps you suggested. Or maybe I'd better just get this wi-fi connection or signup for a wi-fi plan... I guess its about time. Thanks for your suggestion.

There are certain technologies which you guys in UK/Australia might take for granted, but which are not readily available/affordable elsewhere.

[Edited by mauco on 04-Jun-10 04:20]

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04-Jun-10 04:29
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Ah okay, so not at all the iPad's fault really! Wifi is definitely the answer here. Without it, the iPad can't do anything really.

I also reckon even if you did have a regular SIM slot you'd find it hard to use with the iPad unless the account was specifically setup for it.

Simon

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04-Jun-10 23:13
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Hi Mauco! I am glad I made you laugh! Really! And to tell you how happy I am, not only because of that, but to «relieve» you of that pain called iPad because you don't have Wi-Fi, I willing accept your offer to have it, ehehehhe! Ok, I will give you 50 bucks for it! I'll make it 50 euros! A bit more, not that much more, but, since you are unhappy...

I am sympathetic with your problem, though, because I am a Wi-Fi user at home, and school, but since I already graduated I don't go there that often, and if do I will use their 10 year old pcs, I wouldn't mind, really having one of those, and I also think the same about apps. I seen a few already, because of «retro» (??) compatibility between iPod and iPad that might be of some usage, but they were more to the Design area, one of them sort of an Illustrator for kids (I call it that because it seemed to «empty») but that might do the trick, because it is an Adobe app. Don't know if it is Flash based, egehehhehe, just joking.

I am considering the iPad to play online poker, like I do in my laptops, but, if the poker rooms don't do their own apps for iPad I might be in trouble, because their online versions are, pretty much 90% of them, Flash based to.

So, if you don't want it anymore let other kids (me) playing with it! My offer is still on, 50 euros! Ehehehe!

Cheers to you all guys,

Márcio Guerra

P.s.- If I find that Apps link I will share it here to! See ya!

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There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
05-Jun-10 02:19
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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@Márcio: Thanks for the offer, but no thanks!
I've decided I'd signup for a wi-fi plan because my pain isn't the iPad's fault (as Simon rightly observed).

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09-Jun-10 05:02
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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@mauco: Good move I reckon - the iPad is built for wi-fi!

After the recent iPhone 4 announcement I'm faced with something of a dilemma. It's my birthday this weekend and I'm thinking of buying a new toy. Will it be:

* An iPad, with all its big-screen glory. Apart from being really handy around the house, it'll be useful to have a different popular device to test websites and web apps against. Also it's available in Aus right now.

* An iPhone 4 to replace my 2-year-old iPhone 3G. My old iPhone is still going strong but it does get annoyingly sluggish at times. A new zippier phone that multitasks would be fantastic, and that screen looks lovely! And the missus could have my old iPhone. I'd have to wait a bit though, since they're not out in Aus till end July.

Decisions, decisions! Which would you buy...?

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09-Jun-10 07:05
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mauco mauco's avatar Rank: silver
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@Matt: I sure will. I've already started shopping around and I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes.

I suggest you go for the iPad for all the reasons you mentioned but particularly the bit about your being able to test websites and web apps. I'm also looking forward to that!

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09-Jun-10 12:22
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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From: Viseu, Portugal
From my point of view, only the iPad catches my attention, further yet you already have an iPhone. I have a 2006 WM6 XDA Orbit and running fine, altough I sense that I don't give it the same use as you do. My phone/PDA has Wi-Fi, office apps, cr*py web browser, some java games, bluetooth... It is not 3G, however, since not that many people are mentally prepared for 3G calls I don't miss that much.

So, that is my advice, go for the iPad. (Offer 50 bucks to Mauco, he might sell his!) Ehehehe!

Cheers from Portugal

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
10-Jun-10 01:11
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
@mauco and @mguerra79: Thanks for the advice! I must say, I'm definitely leaning towards an iPad.

Not that I've even seen one yet *lol*

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Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
02-Dec-10 00:00
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mguerra79 mguerra79's avatar Rank: bronze
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Posts: 67
From: Viseu, Portugal
Since you mentioned this post in one of the recent newsletters, well, if not that recent sorry, I didn't checked my email in a regular basis for a while, which took holidays, and so on, and so on, and now it is taking me ages to update and read everything...
Well, said that, since you mentioned it, and now you have a nice new post about Simon wanting some excuses to buy one, do any of you had one (and played with it) in your hands? If I still remember, Mauco had one long ago...

Cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein
02-Dec-10 20:04
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matt matt's avatar Rank: gold
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Posts: 3328
From: Southern Highlands, NSW, Australia
I had a go on one in the Apple Store a few months ago, and it actually put me off buying one. It is just a big iPhone!

Sure, it looks great, and many tasks are a lot easier on the bigger screen. But at the end of the day, it's hard to justify if you already have an iPhone/iPod touch.

Instead I bought myself a 17" MacBook Pro, which is much more useful for working on the go!

http://mac.elated.com/2010/11/30/macbook-pro-17-2010-review/

That said, I look forward to the next revision of the iPad next year. That, and a couple of killer iPad apps, and I can see myself getting one eventually...

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Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/
 
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