ELATED: Graphics and Design http://www.elated.com/ Get help with Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro, Flash and other graphics packages. Share ideas and techniques for producing great site designs! en-us Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:57:23 GMT Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:57:23 GMT http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss ELATED.com feeder Re: Links http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5140/#post23453 From: iyappan


I agree this code
<a href="page.html" target="_blank">Keyword </a>

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Chennai web Development
http://www.chennaiwebdevelopment.com/

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]]> Wed, 29 May 2013 11:06:58 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5140#post23453 Re: anybody know anything about icon sets? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792/#post23428 From: simon


I fear I've never done it, but I'd be really interested to know how you get on with generating icon sets and using them. I'm assuming you're using icon font sets?

Simon

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]]> Fri, 17 May 2013 15:55:49 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792#post23428 Re: Text wrap in Illustrator or photoshop http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5587/#post23427 From: simon


Hmm, depends on the desired look, but really it sounds like you might want text on a path:

http://www.adobe.com/designcenter-archive/illustrator/articles/illcs2at_typepath.html

Simon

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]]> Fri, 17 May 2013 15:53:53 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5587#post23427 Re: anybody know anything about icon sets? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792/#post23424 From: pixelfire


I am using a tool Fontello for icon creation.This tool can be also used to convert the photoshop files to the icon file that is .ico

--
http://www.pixelfire.com.au/

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]]> Fri, 17 May 2013 09:11:36 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792#post23424 Text wrap in Illustrator or photoshop http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5587/#post23423 From: eman


I am working on a logo for a client that needs several words wrapped around the letter L like a vine. I'm trying to figure out how to do this in illustrator (preferably) or photoshop. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks

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]]> Fri, 17 May 2013 03:18:41 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5587#post23423 Re: Selecting Layers in Photoshop http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4688/#post23419 From: mguerra79


Hi guys! Thanks for the tutorial. I'm proud to say that I knew 99% of it, only one or two «tricks» that in Portuguese keyboards don't work due to keys positions. Well, even those I knew a few... lucky me, ahahah!

Cheers from Portugal!

Márcio Guerra

--
There are only 2 infinite things, the universe and mens stupidity, and Im not sure about the first one!

Or something like it...
By Albert Einstein

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]]> Tue, 14 May 2013 11:08:52 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4688#post23419 Re: Selecting Layers in Photoshop http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4688/#post23417 From: Moremoe


Thx for the great article.Here is a little problem in Photoshop CS6 to use Rubber-band selection.It didn't work for me.Anyone got the same problem???

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]]> Mon, 13 May 2013 15:17:17 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4688#post23417 The Continuum: The Connected Web of Art, Business and Love http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5585/#post23418 From: Elated


This is a forum topic for discussing the article "The Continuum: The Connected Web of Art, Business and Love":

http://www.elated.com/articles/the-continuum-connected-web-art-business-love/

In this wide-ranging piece, Simon Meek discusses the threads of art, business and relationships that have led him to his current place in the world.

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]]> Mon, 13 May 2013 05:00:00 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5585#post23418 Re: Selecting Layers in Photoshop http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4688/#post23326 From: Aisland3


Thanks!!

It's very helpful...

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]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:00:18 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4688#post23326 Re: Selecting Layers in Photoshop http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4688/#post23300 From: BK


Thanks was very helpful will save a lot of time at my workplace.

--
www.brahmakumaris.com

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]]> Wed, 06 Feb 2013 10:23:41 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4688#post23300 Re: Introducing Sketch: Is Photoshop Now Old Hat? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555/#post23244 From: simon


Here you go:

http://www.bohemiancoding.com/sketch/

Simon

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]]> Wed, 12 Dec 2012 08:30:57 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555#post23244 Re: Introducing Sketch: Is Photoshop Now Old Hat? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555/#post23243 From: inspiredmac


How about a link to the Sketch program. I couldn't find anything on it using Google search.

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]]> Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:25:12 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555#post23243 Re: Introducing Sketch: Is Photoshop Now Old Hat? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555/#post23205 From: simon


Hello all. Yes, I'm not unaware of Fireworks of course, but for me the trouble is that:

1) I don't trust Adobe to keep updating it

2) I hate it beyond all reason. There's nothing I can find to like about it at all apart from its on-paper feature set. It feels permanently like it's working against me.

Your milage may vary. =)

Simon

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]]> Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:29:38 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555#post23205 Re: Introducing Sketch: Is Photoshop Now Old Hat? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555/#post23182 From: damerms


I agree with the Fireworksuser. I have both and slowly start to use Sketch, but still run into bugs. I am not sure what the 10% is that Fireworks can't do. It has pages, master pages, layers, states, symbols, auto shapes, extensions such as Specctr for speccing and a lot more, the ability to add interactions, export prototypes and export to psd. I am sure in time, Sketch will grow into being a wonderful product. PS is slowly getting some plugins to help, but I would use it instead of PS for screen design. Adobe is coming up with some new products that look promising.

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]]> Tue, 13 Nov 2012 17:07:00 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555#post23182 Re: Introducing Sketch: Is Photoshop Now Old Hat? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555/#post23181 From: FireworksUser


Have you ever tried Adobe Fireworks? It has actually done 90% of what Sketch can do for years… it's just Adobe don't care about providing designers with the best tools so has completely ignored Fireworks and let it stagnate.

Can't believe people seriously work with layer groups or multiple documents when Fireworks has had pages and 1 click export for years.

That said… screw Adobe, they're letting Fireworks die so I've been moving to Sketch. The only things Fireworks has over Sketch really are Animated GIF support (wouldn't really make sense in Sketch) and PSD/AI import.

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]]> Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:10:24 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555#post23181 Introducing Sketch: Is Photoshop Now Old Hat? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555/#post23178 From: Elated


This is a forum topic for discussing the article "Introducing Sketch: Is Photoshop Now Old Hat?":

http://www.elated.com/articles/introducing-sketch-is-photoshop-now-old-hat/

In this article, Simon discusses his switch from Photoshop to Sketch as his design tool of choice, and introduces some of Sketch's core features.

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]]> Mon, 12 Nov 2012 06:00:00 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5555#post23178 Re: Web design state of the nation: one designer's journey http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527/#post23119 From: simon


That's right Ben, and if you have clients who trust you enough to go straight to function and in-browser design, then good for you - you're obviously cultivating some lovely clients!

I, conversely, have been back to multiple Photoshop mockups this week. Feels like a step back in time!

Simon

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]]> Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:14:53 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527#post23119 Re: Web design state of the nation: one designer's journey http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527/#post23118 From: hatchpb


Great post, thanks for that. I'm a freelancer working mostly on my own and have been trying to get away from mock-ups too.

Although providing a mock-up is sometimes the only way to seal a deal, I've had better experiences with clients who have trusted me & forgone the desire to see what it looks like before I've made it functional.

Funny, since the "look" of a website is only half the story.

--
Ben Read
@hatchpb

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]]> Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:49:03 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527#post23118 Re: Web design state of the nation: one designer's journey http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527/#post23068 From: simon


Hi Dave,

I used Xara to illustrate an entire children's once in the mid 90's. Very innovative at the time.

Sketch2 does a lot of what apps like Illustrator do, but with a much more approachable interface. For me what's so good are the touches that make it a great design tool - stylesheets, multi-pages etc.

Simon

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]]> Mon, 10 Sep 2012 08:22:25 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527#post23068 Re: Web design state of the nation: one designer's journey http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527/#post23067 From: daveporter


Thanks Simon,

Sorry I've not read you earlier articles - but will do !

I'm not shy of spending money, but would much rather give $50 to a small company than $500 to adobe

I've been a user of the Xara Designer program for a while, but If you don't use these things regularly, it's easy to forget how to do the basics - but so far Sketch-2 seems to have a nice 'obvious what to do' interface!

Thanks again for the article !
Dave

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]]> Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:24:52 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527#post23067 Re: Web design state of the nation: one designer's journey http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527/#post23066 From: simon


Well, as I said in my "new Photoshop" piece a year or so ago, Fireworks isn't for me. I don't get on with Fireworks. I don't like the way it performs tasks, nor the interface. Actually I never got on with the Macromedia interface at all, which is basically the same now as when Adobe bought them. So that's Fireworks, Dreamweaver & Flash that I can't get on with!

Your mileage may well vary though - lots of people love Fireworks.

Simon

[Edited by simon on 10-Sep-12 02:22]

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]]> Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:18:41 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527#post23066 Re: Web design state of the nation: one designer's journey http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527/#post23065 From: daveporter


How does Fireworks stack up ?
I just started playing with it - following the Adobe book 'Classroom in a book'.
I'm a graphics pleb So would be interested in your thoughts ?
But I do have one advantage - I do have access to my Wife's Mac
And Sketch2 does look very nice !
Cheers, Dave

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]]> Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:41:53 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527#post23065 Web design state of the nation: one designer's journey http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527/#post23064 From: Elated


This is a forum topic for discussing the article "Web design state of the nation: one designer's journey":

http://www.elated.com/articles/web-design-state-of-the-nation-one-designers-journey-/

Simon looks at how web design and build workflows have changed for him over the last eighteen months.

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]]> Sun, 09 Sep 2012 05:00:00 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5527#post23064 Re: Fading One Image into Another http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4647/#post23054 From: chrishirst


And have you not learnt to read yet??

--
Chris.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
http://webmaster-talk.eu/

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]]> Sun, 02 Sep 2012 17:30:01 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4647#post23054 Re: Fading One Image into Another http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4647/#post23052 From: ObeyKiidG231534


I WANT TO FADE A PICTURE TO ANOTHER

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]]> Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:23:20 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4647#post23052 Re: Fading One Image into Another http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4647/#post23051 From: ObeyKiidG231534


I WANT TO FADE A PICTURE TO ANOTHER

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]]> Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:23:19 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/4647#post23051 Re: eBook Giveaway: Win a Copy of The Best 365 Websites Around the World http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483/#post22811 From: egzonche


Great giveaway, thank you Elated.
My favorite website is http://www.rrota.com , it is a local company which has a really great portfolio of their work.
Link of my tweet: https://twitter.com/#!/egzonche/status/203423526835859456

Thanks

--
Web Developer

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]]> Fri, 18 May 2012 10:01:58 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483#post22811 Re: eBook Giveaway: Win a Copy of The Best 365 Websites Around the World http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483/#post22789 From: efwis


Well, I guess my favorite site would have to be harleydavidson.com.

the main reason is obvious, it's Harley Davidson motorcycles. And since I hang out with a MC (Motorcycle Club) and go to a biker church on Sundays led by a pastor from a local MM (Motorcycle Ministry) it only makes sense that I enjoy that site.

So don't forget, Save a life, share the road with motorcycles.

here is my tweet link: https://twitter.com/#!/sixtoedDesign/status/199899544371204096

--
http://www.sixtoed-design.com
The web design company that allows the customer to choose their design as its made.

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]]> Tue, 08 May 2012 17:07:34 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483#post22789 Re: eBook Giveaway: Win a Copy of The Best 365 Websites Around the World http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483/#post22788 From: mauco


I must confess, its not easy for me to pick my all-time favourite website because there are so many. But if I'm to pick just one (on the spur of the moment) it'll be thepixelio.com - why? I just like the simple look/feel of the website, its easy to navigate and loads rather fast.

Link to my tweet:
https://twitter.com/#!/ademolaabimbola/status/199786193259470848

--
http://www.mauconline.net

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]]> Tue, 08 May 2012 09:05:21 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483#post22788 Re: eBook Giveaway: Win a Copy of The Best 365 Websites Around the World http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483/#post22787 From: nicksp


Cool giweavay. So...

Pre Scriptum: Sorry for my english

My latest trend favourite website is the next one -> http://yarastore.ru/ (in russian though)

Why do i love it?

--If I could summarize the experience of the use of the website, I would say so:

Modern, pretty looking website based on modern and interactive web elements with bulletproof design concepts and layouts with graceful degradation and progressive anhancement behind the scenes. It utilizes cool js effects and great css tricks throughout the whole website. Just look around the website...

--In more detailed words (smth. like a personal review of system functionality):

The main page shows the product and a metaphor for growth.

Your child is in the spotlight. From the original “I grow up” to a more personal “Andrew grows up” (the upper-left interactive form on the main page).

Exhaustive product information and instructions fill the page in form of neat looking tables and layouts(http://yarastore.ru/products/formula-2/).

That website showed nutrition tips in a new user interface that combines the familiarity of a linear scroll and the usability of a per-question index. The format suits any website’s FAQ section. Also please note the excellent smooth scrolling in the left colum of the page (http://yarastore.ru/faq/).

Customers only fill the order form once, with minimum details (http://yarastore.ru/order/formula-2/).

The site requires no sign-up, passwords or e-mail confirmations. It's engine remembers customers and reminds then when their product may have run out or when it’s time to switch to a different-age product.
So, 'Ya Rastu' Website is both a product and a service. It illustrates modern approach to designing efficient systems. The name, the logo, all the packaging and websites work together in perfect harmony.

Here is the link to my tweet: http://twitter.com/#!/nickplekhanov/status/199748762397196288

[Edited by nicksp on 08-May-12 03:29]

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]]> Tue, 08 May 2012 08:29:22 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483#post22787 eBook Giveaway: Win a Copy of The Best 365 Websites Around the World http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483/#post22785 From: Elated


This is a forum topic for discussing the article "eBook Giveaway: Win a Copy of The Best 365 Websites Around the World":

http://www.elated.com/articles/best-365-websites-around-the-world-giveaway/

Enter for your chance to win a digital copy of "The Best 365 Websites Around the World" from Awwwards!

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]]> Mon, 07 May 2012 05:00:00 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5483#post22785 Re: how to edit the pagekit?? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5436/#post22595 From: chrishirst


http://www.elated.com/articles/cat/pagekits-help/

--
Chris.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
http://webmaster-talk.eu/

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]]> Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:56:40 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5436#post22595 how to edit the pagekit?? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5436/#post22511 From: Aisyah


how to use the downloaded pagekit??? please help me

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]]> Thu, 15 Mar 2012 06:27:06 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5436#post22511 Re: anybody know anything about icon sets? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792/#post22304 From: chrishirst


Inkscape [http://inkscape.org] and IrfanView [http://irfanview.com] can save or convert images to windows icon format (.ico)

[Edited by chrishirst on 10-Feb-12 15:18]

--
Chris.
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
http://webmaster-talk.eu/

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]]> Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:17:13 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792#post22304 Re: anybody know anything about icon sets? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792/#post22162 From: matt


@ibo765: Glad you got it working. You probably don't want to mess about too much with jQM's button/icon sizes though, as it may have knock-on effects with other page elements.

Don't forget you can also create a 36x36 icon for HD displays, which allows you to have more detail.

From a design perspective, it's also worth pointing out that an icon designed at 128x128 won't necessarily be that clear at 16x16! Icon designers usually design alternative icon sets at various different sizes.

Cheers,
Matt

--
Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/

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]]> Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:45:34 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792#post22162 Re: anybody know anything about icon sets? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792/#post22151 From: ibo765


This has definitely been a learning experience. Since the last post, I have picked up some information from the web that has answered some questions. I have learned how to remove the semi-transparent black/grey circle for the button icon. This allows for more colorful icons to be seen.

Now I need to figure out how to make the button size larger to display more interesting icons. 18x18 pixel dimension is somewhat limiting..

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]]> Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:31:01 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792#post22151 Re: anybody know anything about icon sets? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792/#post22148 From: ibo765


I realized that the file path had one too many backslashes...It was corrected: .ui-icon-foodmenu { background-image: url(images/food.png); }

I took and existing .PNG from http://www.iconfinder.com/ and sized it down to 18 x 18 to use on my button. Since it already has a transparency layer, I took no further action. However the image is not showing properly on the button using the code from the book.

Here is the icon I am attempting to display:
http://www.iconfinder.com/icondetails/49741/128/food_knife_icon

I have discovered that this is not much information on the web of on creating custom icons for Jquery Mobile though I have seen some stunning examples in the Jquery Mobile site.

Can anyone point to where I can find some good information on that topic?

[Edited by ibo765 on 21-Jan-12 20:43]

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]]> Sun, 22 Jan 2012 02:41:22 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792#post22148 Re: anybody know anything about icon sets? http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792/#post22144 From: ibo765


To Matt Doyle:

I believe I have followed the information on page 49-51 of your book on building my own custom Icon but it is still not displaying.

So what I did was use a known working custom icon that is displaying from another jquery mobile application and it does not display either.

All I get is a grey dot where the image should be on the button.

So, there is a problem with the code somewhere...



Code:
--------------------
CSS:
.ui-icon-foodmenu { background-image: url(/images/food.png); }

<a href="index.html" data-role="button" data-icon="foodmenu">Menu</a>
--------------------


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]]> Sat, 21 Jan 2012 18:28:29 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/1792#post22144 Re: Business Card Giveaway: Win 250 Free Cards from UPrinting! http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334/#post22030 From: megsk


nice one thanks guys!

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]]> Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:56:07 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334#post22030 Re: Photoshop X and Y axes http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5335/#post21962 From: niintek


Thanks Matt! I really forgot how to do that! Now that you say, it rings a bell! I think i needa work less in illustrator

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]]> Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:28:50 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5335#post21962 Re: Photoshop X and Y axes http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5335/#post21929 From: matt


@niintek: You can position a layer precisely by selecting it in the Layers palette, then choosing Edit > Free Transform and entering values in the X and Y boxes in the toolbar at the top.

--
Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/

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]]> Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:30:05 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5335#post21929 Re: Photoshop X and Y axes http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5335/#post21917 From: niintek


Sorry for my the late reaction! But Matt, i think that this works just as good as the way i'm used too in illustrator. As you might now, in illustrator you can select objects and give them both x and y values for positioning.

So is there a way too align objects within photoshop but without using a guide you mentioned above? I know you can open up the info window, but here you cannot specify any values.

Ciao,

Nick

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]]> Tue, 13 Dec 2011 09:31:45 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5335#post21917 Re: Business Card Giveaway: Win 250 Free Cards from UPrinting! http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334/#post21834 From: vassalos


Nice Offer - thanks to Uprinting and to Elated.

--
CV

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]]> Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:14:53 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334#post21834 Re: Business Card Giveaway: Win 250 Free Cards from UPrinting! http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334/#post21814 From: csaldanh


I love cool business cards like those!

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]]> Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:36:38 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334#post21814 Re: Business Card Giveaway: Win 250 Free Cards from UPrinting! http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334/#post21813 From: simPod


Ok, I hope that I'll win

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]]> Sun, 27 Nov 2011 21:40:39 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334#post21813 Re: Business Card Giveaway: Win 250 Free Cards from UPrinting! http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334/#post21811 From: jackedwebdesign


Thanks for offering this promotion!

--
Jenna Bauer
www.jackedwebdesign.com

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]]> Sun, 27 Nov 2011 02:09:04 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334#post21811 Re: Business Card Giveaway: Win 250 Free Cards from UPrinting! http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334/#post21803 From: sean101


love these guys at uprinting.com. I did a set in the past and I would continue using them.

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]]> Fri, 25 Nov 2011 20:01:55 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334#post21803 Re: Business Card Giveaway: Win 250 Free Cards from UPrinting! http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334/#post21790 From: DOC


Oh I'd love some business cards. I'm tired of advertising my business in permanent marker on bathroom stall doors. (kidding!!)

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]]> Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:06:19 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334#post21790 Re: Business Card Giveaway: Win 250 Free Cards from UPrinting! http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334/#post21783 From: hansfahlen


Really nice giveaway. Keep up the good work!

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]]> Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:45:44 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5334#post21783 Re: Photoshop X and Y axes http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5335/#post21774 From: matt


@niintek: Do you mean a ruler or a guide? For a guide, choose View > New Guide and type the position.

I don't think it's possible with rulers, at least on CS3 (which is what I'm using).

Cheers,
Matt

--
Matt Doyle, Elated
3rd Edition of my jQuery Mobile book out now! Learn to build mobile web apps. Free sample chapter: http://store.elated.com/

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]]> Thu, 24 Nov 2011 02:51:27 GMT http://www.elated.com/forums/topic/5335#post21774